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	<title>Comments on: Why Your Photos Look Lousy&#8230; or Simple Truths About Color Management</title>
	<atom:link href="http://pixsylated.com/2008/05/why-your-photos-look-lousy/feed/" rel="self" type="application/rss+xml" />
	<link>http://pixsylated.com/2008/05/why-your-photos-look-lousy/</link>
	<description>Insights on Digital Photography, Canon Flash, Shooting Tethered, Color Management, Lightroom Workflow</description>
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		<title>By: Syl Arena</title>
		<link>http://pixsylated.com/2008/05/why-your-photos-look-lousy/comment-page-1/#comment-2507</link>
		<dc:creator>Syl Arena</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 24 Jun 2009 20:27:32 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://pixsylated.com/?p=40#comment-2507</guid>
		<description>&lt;strong&gt;Harv&lt;/strong&gt; - I follow the late Bruce Fraser&#039;s advise of using ProPhoto as my editing space. Why? To future-proof my images as much as I can. Gamuts of printers and monitors continue to expand. I may not be able to see or print all the colors of ProPhoto today, but keeping my working files in the widest space possible keeps my options open for the future. When I&#039;m ready to output to a specific device, such as the new Epson 9900 or to the web, I&#039;ll take my working file an convert it into the profile of the destination and export that derivative file. Ciao!  Syl</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p><strong>Harv</strong> &#8211; I follow the late Bruce Fraser&#8217;s advise of using ProPhoto as my editing space. Why? To future-proof my images as much as I can. Gamuts of printers and monitors continue to expand. I may not be able to see or print all the colors of ProPhoto today, but keeping my working files in the widest space possible keeps my options open for the future. When I&#8217;m ready to output to a specific device, such as the new Epson 9900 or to the web, I&#8217;ll take my working file an convert it into the profile of the destination and export that derivative file. Ciao!  Syl</p>
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	<item>
		<title>By: Harv</title>
		<link>http://pixsylated.com/2008/05/why-your-photos-look-lousy/comment-page-1/#comment-2506</link>
		<dc:creator>Harv</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 24 Jun 2009 18:36:06 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://pixsylated.com/?p=40#comment-2506</guid>
		<description>Hey Syl,
I thoroughly enjoyed your post! Some very valuable info for any photographer. 

If I’m using a display like the 2490wuxi (sRGB) does it make sense to import raw photos to proPhoto or aRGB? Or how do I know I’m looking at accurate colors of an sRGB image when using a wide gamut display? 

Thanks!
Harv</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Hey Syl,<br />
I thoroughly enjoyed your post! Some very valuable info for any photographer. </p>
<p>If I’m using a display like the 2490wuxi (sRGB) does it make sense to import raw photos to proPhoto or aRGB? Or how do I know I’m looking at accurate colors of an sRGB image when using a wide gamut display? </p>
<p>Thanks!<br />
Harv</p>
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		<title>By: Anders</title>
		<link>http://pixsylated.com/2008/05/why-your-photos-look-lousy/comment-page-1/#comment-1510</link>
		<dc:creator>Anders</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 16 Feb 2009 09:05:50 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://pixsylated.com/?p=40#comment-1510</guid>
		<description>Ah - of course, that makes sense. Thank you for the clarification.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Ah &#8211; of course, that makes sense. Thank you for the clarification.</p>
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	<item>
		<title>By: Syl Arena</title>
		<link>http://pixsylated.com/2008/05/why-your-photos-look-lousy/comment-page-1/#comment-1502</link>
		<dc:creator>Syl Arena</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sat, 14 Feb 2009 14:29:23 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://pixsylated.com/?p=40#comment-1502</guid>
		<description>&lt;strong&gt;Anders&lt;/strong&gt; - I use ProPhoto for my post-capture image processing because it&#039;s the biggest color space I can find (at present). Don&#039;t think of this in terms of the colors captured by your camera. Rather, think of the colors that can be created in post-production. A quick example with Lightroom... run the &quot;Saturation&quot; bar all the way to the right and you will instantly have colors that exceed the gamut of AdobeRBG. If you actually wanted to retain all those colors, you&#039;d have to save the file in a color space that&#039;s bigger than AdobeRGB. 

Also keep in mind that printer manufacturers are continually developing high-end printers that expand the gamut of colors they can print. Here&#039;s an example from Epson -- the &lt;a&gt;UltraChrome HDR ink&lt;/a&gt; used on their new 7900 and 9900 printers. The colors that can be printed with this ink are amazing -- especially in the saturated greens and blues. I guarantee you that not too many years from now this technology will become standard on desktop units. So I want to keep my options open for the future by using the widest color space I can today.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p><strong>Anders</strong> &#8211; I use ProPhoto for my post-capture image processing because it&#8217;s the biggest color space I can find (at present). Don&#8217;t think of this in terms of the colors captured by your camera. Rather, think of the colors that can be created in post-production. A quick example with Lightroom&#8230; run the &#8220;Saturation&#8221; bar all the way to the right and you will instantly have colors that exceed the gamut of AdobeRBG. If you actually wanted to retain all those colors, you&#8217;d have to save the file in a color space that&#8217;s bigger than AdobeRGB. </p>
<p>Also keep in mind that printer manufacturers are continually developing high-end printers that expand the gamut of colors they can print. Here&#8217;s an example from Epson &#8212; the <a>UltraChrome HDR ink</a> used on their new 7900 and 9900 printers. The colors that can be printed with this ink are amazing &#8212; especially in the saturated greens and blues. I guarantee you that not too many years from now this technology will become standard on desktop units. So I want to keep my options open for the future by using the widest color space I can today.</p>
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		<title>By: Anders</title>
		<link>http://pixsylated.com/2008/05/why-your-photos-look-lousy/comment-page-1/#comment-1496</link>
		<dc:creator>Anders</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 12 Feb 2009 21:35:50 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://pixsylated.com/?p=40#comment-1496</guid>
		<description>This was very helpful indeed and I&#039;ve taken most of what you&#039;ve written at heart, but there is a single thing I really can&#039;t wrap my head around:

What is the use of importing into ProPhoto if your camera only can do AdobeRGB? While this will allow for a potentially larger number of colors, it will not make any difference to the number of colors actually captured, so where is the advantage?

Or does the camera captures more than the AdobeRGB colorspace and just uses that when creating JPG in-camera, basically meaning that colorspace has no meaning when talking about RAW? I&#039;m confused, because the RAW-files from my Canon DSLR has the AdobeRGB colorspace registered and seems to be using it during conversion.

Otherwise, thanks for a good read - your blog has been bookmarked. :)</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>This was very helpful indeed and I&#8217;ve taken most of what you&#8217;ve written at heart, but there is a single thing I really can&#8217;t wrap my head around:</p>
<p>What is the use of importing into ProPhoto if your camera only can do AdobeRGB? While this will allow for a potentially larger number of colors, it will not make any difference to the number of colors actually captured, so where is the advantage?</p>
<p>Or does the camera captures more than the AdobeRGB colorspace and just uses that when creating JPG in-camera, basically meaning that colorspace has no meaning when talking about RAW? I&#8217;m confused, because the RAW-files from my Canon DSLR has the AdobeRGB colorspace registered and seems to be using it during conversion.</p>
<p>Otherwise, thanks for a good read &#8211; your blog has been bookmarked. <img src='http://pixsylated.com/wp-includes/images/smilies/icon_smile.gif' alt=':)' class='wp-smiley' /> </p>
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		<title>By: Nick</title>
		<link>http://pixsylated.com/2008/05/why-your-photos-look-lousy/comment-page-1/#comment-1366</link>
		<dc:creator>Nick</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sun, 11 Jan 2009 18:51:56 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://pixsylated.com/?p=40#comment-1366</guid>
		<description>Not a bad explanation..... though I would disagree with the implication that the flower photo you posted is bad because the red gamut is clipped.  I don&#039;t mean that as an insult... I am saying that having an increased gamut will not fix bad pictures.  (switching that photo to prophoto would not improve it one bit.)

I would also challenge the assertion that argb makes much of a noticeable difference in real world prints (unless you are doing some sort of  blown saturation deal [sunsets, certain landscapes]...). Prophoto is mostly useless in photography as it mainly adds unrealistic &quot;florescent&quot; like colors that will not show up in your pictures unless you are digitally painting them.  In return for this you are getting a  greatly increased chance of posterization in 8 bit mode.  

 90% of photos will not show Argb producing noticeably better prints than srgb when proper softproofing is done on both.   (cmyk on the other hand does takes a serious dump on color if you are not careful...)  That not to say it does not have it&#039;s place, only that it is not the huge hindrance to good photos that seems to be implied by the articles title. 

Wide gamut monitors are NOT for everyone and can make your life miserable if you do not know how to use them.  If you DO now how to use one.. the NEC 2690 WUXI Spectraview is by far the best out there under 2k  [it runs 1200ish] (26in S-IPS AT-W).  The Srgb version is the 2490.  

Also... For the new photographer.... if you plan to post your photos on the web, SRGB is the only format you should use for web display...otherwise your photos will look very poor and desaturated to most people&#039;s monitors.

Once again I think you did a nice job explaining the basics and you obviously know what your talking about, I just felt the need to take issue with the idea that more must ALWAYS be better and if a person doesn&#039;t have it they can&#039;t take good photos.  It is kind of like the megapixel race....  the average consumer thinks 15 MP must be better than 10 MP, when what the don&#039;t realize is that the 10 MP actually has better IQ and Noise due to larger pixels.  Srgb (web, most prints)/argb(some commercial work, sunsets ect)/prophoto(digital painting) all have their place.  

Thanks for reading my rant!</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Not a bad explanation&#8230;.. though I would disagree with the implication that the flower photo you posted is bad because the red gamut is clipped.  I don&#8217;t mean that as an insult&#8230; I am saying that having an increased gamut will not fix bad pictures.  (switching that photo to prophoto would not improve it one bit.)</p>
<p>I would also challenge the assertion that argb makes much of a noticeable difference in real world prints (unless you are doing some sort of  blown saturation deal [sunsets, certain landscapes]&#8230;). Prophoto is mostly useless in photography as it mainly adds unrealistic &#8220;florescent&#8221; like colors that will not show up in your pictures unless you are digitally painting them.  In return for this you are getting a  greatly increased chance of posterization in 8 bit mode.  </p>
<p> 90% of photos will not show Argb producing noticeably better prints than srgb when proper softproofing is done on both.   (cmyk on the other hand does takes a serious dump on color if you are not careful&#8230;)  That not to say it does not have it&#8217;s place, only that it is not the huge hindrance to good photos that seems to be implied by the articles title. </p>
<p>Wide gamut monitors are NOT for everyone and can make your life miserable if you do not know how to use them.  If you DO now how to use one.. the NEC 2690 WUXI Spectraview is by far the best out there under 2k  [it runs 1200ish] (26in S-IPS AT-W).  The Srgb version is the 2490.  </p>
<p>Also&#8230; For the new photographer&#8230;. if you plan to post your photos on the web, SRGB is the only format you should use for web display&#8230;otherwise your photos will look very poor and desaturated to most people&#8217;s monitors.</p>
<p>Once again I think you did a nice job explaining the basics and you obviously know what your talking about, I just felt the need to take issue with the idea that more must ALWAYS be better and if a person doesn&#8217;t have it they can&#8217;t take good photos.  It is kind of like the megapixel race&#8230;.  the average consumer thinks 15 MP must be better than 10 MP, when what the don&#8217;t realize is that the 10 MP actually has better IQ and Noise due to larger pixels.  Srgb (web, most prints)/argb(some commercial work, sunsets ect)/prophoto(digital painting) all have their place.  </p>
<p>Thanks for reading my rant!</p>
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		<title>By: Syl Arena</title>
		<link>http://pixsylated.com/2008/05/why-your-photos-look-lousy/comment-page-1/#comment-1231</link>
		<dc:creator>Syl Arena</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 06 Jan 2009 05:26:45 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://pixsylated.com/?p=40#comment-1231</guid>
		<description>&lt;strong&gt;Mike&lt;/strong&gt; - My fundamental view about color management is that one should use the widest color space available until it is necessary to convert to a specific means of output. So, my master files are in ProPhoto and my derivative files are in the color space needed for a specific means of output. Why? I&#039;ve learned the hard way that I should keep my color options open for the future. My Epson 3800 can print a wider range of colors than the printer I had five years ago. Who knows how wide the gamut will be in another five years? Using a smaller color space today gives up these options for more vibrant / more accurate color down the road. Here&#039;s the hard way... I have an archive of chromes that were drum-scanned directly into CMYK (which was the state-of-the art a decade ago) that will have to be re-scanned if I want to maximize the amount of color I can render on today&#039;s (or tomorrow&#039;s) printers. Preparing print files from these scans today leaves out so many colors that are visible in the original chromes. I think that ProPhoto is THE space to work in... until something bigger comes along.

As for converting from a wide working space, like ProPhoto, down to a small output space like CMYK for press or sRGB for screen, if you are getting posterization, then you need to revisit your workflow. Posterization is not a function of color space. It&#039;s a function of file management. JP Caponigro has a wide range of free info on the subject. I suggest that you take a &lt;a href=&quot;http://www.johnpaulcaponigro.com/downloads/technique/technique.php&quot; target=&quot;_blank&quot; rel=&quot;nofollow&quot;&gt;look at his site&lt;/a&gt; for a wealth of info on color management and workflow. Also check out &lt;a href=&quot;http://acmeeducational.com/jpc/index.html&quot; target=&quot;_blank&quot; rel=&quot;nofollow&quot;&gt;JP&#039;s DVDs&lt;/a&gt; and &lt;a href=&quot;http://acmeeducational.com/holbert/index.html&quot; target=&quot;_blank&quot; rel=&quot;nofollow&quot;&gt;Mac Holbert&#039;s DVD&lt;/a&gt; at Acme Educational. 

Finally, I can think of no reason to set my cameras to sRGB rather than Adobe RGB -- even if I &quot;always&quot; shoot in RAW. I&#039;ll admit, I&#039;ve inadvertently shot in JPEG, when I thought I was shooting in RAW. The most recent time happened after I set my camera to Small JPEG so that I could shoot a 24-hour time lapse at 10-second intervals and get all the frames (8,640 total) on one CF. Afterward, I missed the RAW setting and selected the adjacent one - which is Large JPEG. Fortunately, because I&#039;d set my camera to Adobe RGB rather than sRGB, I was still maximizing the color in my files. For point-and-shoot photographers, sRGB is fine. For DSLR shooters, the better practice is to choose the wider color space. Right now, that&#039;s Adobe RGB. Ciao!</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p><strong>Mike</strong> &#8211; My fundamental view about color management is that one should use the widest color space available until it is necessary to convert to a specific means of output. So, my master files are in ProPhoto and my derivative files are in the color space needed for a specific means of output. Why? I&#8217;ve learned the hard way that I should keep my color options open for the future. My Epson 3800 can print a wider range of colors than the printer I had five years ago. Who knows how wide the gamut will be in another five years? Using a smaller color space today gives up these options for more vibrant / more accurate color down the road. Here&#8217;s the hard way&#8230; I have an archive of chromes that were drum-scanned directly into CMYK (which was the state-of-the art a decade ago) that will have to be re-scanned if I want to maximize the amount of color I can render on today&#8217;s (or tomorrow&#8217;s) printers. Preparing print files from these scans today leaves out so many colors that are visible in the original chromes. I think that ProPhoto is THE space to work in&#8230; until something bigger comes along.</p>
<p>As for converting from a wide working space, like ProPhoto, down to a small output space like CMYK for press or sRGB for screen, if you are getting posterization, then you need to revisit your workflow. Posterization is not a function of color space. It&#8217;s a function of file management. JP Caponigro has a wide range of free info on the subject. I suggest that you take a <a href="http://www.johnpaulcaponigro.com/downloads/technique/technique.php" target="_blank" rel="nofollow">look at his site</a> for a wealth of info on color management and workflow. Also check out <a href="http://acmeeducational.com/jpc/index.html" target="_blank" rel="nofollow">JP&#8217;s DVDs</a> and <a href="http://acmeeducational.com/holbert/index.html" target="_blank" rel="nofollow">Mac Holbert&#8217;s DVD</a> at Acme Educational. </p>
<p>Finally, I can think of no reason to set my cameras to sRGB rather than Adobe RGB &#8212; even if I &#8220;always&#8221; shoot in RAW. I&#8217;ll admit, I&#8217;ve inadvertently shot in JPEG, when I thought I was shooting in RAW. The most recent time happened after I set my camera to Small JPEG so that I could shoot a 24-hour time lapse at 10-second intervals and get all the frames (8,640 total) on one CF. Afterward, I missed the RAW setting and selected the adjacent one &#8211; which is Large JPEG. Fortunately, because I&#8217;d set my camera to Adobe RGB rather than sRGB, I was still maximizing the color in my files. For point-and-shoot photographers, sRGB is fine. For DSLR shooters, the better practice is to choose the wider color space. Right now, that&#8217;s Adobe RGB. Ciao!</p>
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		<title>By: Mike</title>
		<link>http://pixsylated.com/2008/05/why-your-photos-look-lousy/comment-page-1/#comment-1229</link>
		<dc:creator>Mike</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 06 Jan 2009 01:17:40 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://pixsylated.com/?p=40#comment-1229</guid>
		<description>There are some things about your post that are questionable.  First of all, you mention that Adobe 1998 should be what you set your camera too.  What you set your camera to is irrelevant if you are shooting Raw.  Second, using ProPhoto as your space is not always the best thing, especially since it is not popular with professional photograpers, designers, editors, etc.  If you must choose one, choose Adobe RGB, since 9 times out of 10 that is what their working space is, and if it&#039;s not that, it&#039;s sRGB.  I have never ever had a stock agency tell me to submit photos tagged with ProPhotoRGB.  Not mention that posterization that can occur when you use ProPhoto, do your adjustments, then change it to an 8bit TIFF for submitting.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>There are some things about your post that are questionable.  First of all, you mention that Adobe 1998 should be what you set your camera too.  What you set your camera to is irrelevant if you are shooting Raw.  Second, using ProPhoto as your space is not always the best thing, especially since it is not popular with professional photograpers, designers, editors, etc.  If you must choose one, choose Adobe RGB, since 9 times out of 10 that is what their working space is, and if it&#8217;s not that, it&#8217;s sRGB.  I have never ever had a stock agency tell me to submit photos tagged with ProPhotoRGB.  Not mention that posterization that can occur when you use ProPhoto, do your adjustments, then change it to an 8bit TIFF for submitting.</p>
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		<title>By: Helglänkar och läsning om foto &#124; Bild och foto</title>
		<link>http://pixsylated.com/2008/05/why-your-photos-look-lousy/comment-page-1/#comment-1176</link>
		<dc:creator>Helglänkar och läsning om foto &#124; Bild och foto</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 30 Dec 2008 09:17:30 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://pixsylated.com/?p=40#comment-1176</guid>
		<description>[...] photography tipsar om bra sätt att redigera landskapsbilder. Pixsylated har en bra artikel om varför dina bilder inte blir så bra som de borde. Digital Photography School tipsar om bra saker att tänka på om du ska ut och fotografera svampar [...]</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>[...] photography tipsar om bra sätt att redigera landskapsbilder. Pixsylated har en bra artikel om varför dina bilder inte blir så bra som de borde. Digital Photography School tipsar om bra saker att tänka på om du ska ut och fotografera svampar [...]</p>
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		<title>By: Syl Arena</title>
		<link>http://pixsylated.com/2008/05/why-your-photos-look-lousy/comment-page-1/#comment-731</link>
		<dc:creator>Syl Arena</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 16 Dec 2008 18:37:14 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://pixsylated.com/?p=40#comment-731</guid>
		<description>&lt;strong&gt;Shadi&lt;/strong&gt; - The world is full of out-of-gamut colors - ie: colors that can&#039;t be reproduced in print or on a computer screen. Heck, from a bumblebee&#039;s perspective, human vision has a limited gamut because we can&#039;t see ultraviolet like she can. When it comes to making photos, I worry about the contrast (difference between the highlights and shadows) of the scene at the time that I&#039;m making the shot. I don&#039;t worry about the color gamut - because there&#039;s not a lot that I can do about it in the field. Color gamut is defined by the means of output. So, I control that in post-production through Lightroom and/or Photoshop. Ciao!  Syl</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p><strong>Shadi</strong> &#8211; The world is full of out-of-gamut colors &#8211; ie: colors that can&#8217;t be reproduced in print or on a computer screen. Heck, from a bumblebee&#8217;s perspective, human vision has a limited gamut because we can&#8217;t see ultraviolet like she can. When it comes to making photos, I worry about the contrast (difference between the highlights and shadows) of the scene at the time that I&#8217;m making the shot. I don&#8217;t worry about the color gamut &#8211; because there&#8217;s not a lot that I can do about it in the field. Color gamut is defined by the means of output. So, I control that in post-production through Lightroom and/or Photoshop. Ciao!  Syl</p>
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